Humidity and Heat Pumps

RobertW
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 8, 2017 16:07:07 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Sept 8, 2017 16:07:07 GMT -5

Just installed new furnace and heat pump today.

Humidity in the guitar room (which has no air duct) dropped from 52% to 41% within a few minutes

I quickly disconnected my dehumidifier and pulled out my humidifier and loaded it up! I have no experience with heat pumps so was not expecting so QUICK a change. I don't think I have ever switched over from De-Humidification to Humidification so early in autumn.

I think I'm going to have to watch humidity more closely now.

Anyone else have humidity issues with heat pumps?
or central air?

Last Edit: Sept 9, 2017 13:53:39 GMT -5 by RobertW: added question

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ladyssolo Supreme Member Posts: 1,267	Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 9, 2017 19:07:09 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ladyssolo on Sept 9, 2017 19:07:09 GMT -5 I have central air, but I don't have it set very cold (about 74 degrees F) so no real humidity issues, probably due to the large number of plants and tropical fish that also live in the house.

Greg Ballantyne
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 9, 2017 22:45:22 GMT -5 TonyKgull likes this

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Post by Greg Ballantyne on Sept 9, 2017 22:45:22 GMT -5

RobertW , 41% won't hurt a thing.... I've been in the mid 30's for weeks (winter time) without any problem. I've been in houses with heat pumps for the last 31 years (two different houses, two different locations) and low humidity only ever presents itself in the winter. I've gotten into the mid 30's nearly every winter for some period, and there are a few expected effects, but nothing even close to damage. Just some seasonal tuning differences. I am, however, running a humidifier in the heat pump (while heating - I haven't run any heat since March or April, this year) - I set it at maximum in wintertime at 45%. It doesn't always keep it there.....
If you want to keep it higher, there is always boiling a teapot - requires attention, however....

Last Edit: Sept 9, 2017 22:46:16 GMT -5 by Greg Ballantyne

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TonyKgull
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 1:22:23 GMT -5

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Post by TonyKgull on Sept 10, 2017 1:22:23 GMT -5

Sept 9, 2017 19:07:09 GMT -5 ladyssolo said:

I have central air, but I don't have it set very cold (about 74 degrees F) so no real humidity issues, probably due to the large number of plants and tropical fish that also live in the house.

Plants and a fish tank do absolute wonders for humidity. My brother loves plants and has a big fish tank. He's got an older furnace and runs absolutely nothing for humidification in the winter. His whole house seems to sit fairly steady at around 50% humidity in the winter, sometimes even more! I can not, ever, walk into his house anywhere near the beginning of fall all the way into the beginning of spring without my glasses immediately fogging up. LOL! That never happens in my place, hence why I use guitar case humidifiers religiously. Just can't keep the humidity up in my place.

=====================================
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give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I
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RobertW
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 8:17:32 GMT -5

Quote

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 8:17:32 GMT -5

Sept 9, 2017 22:45:22 GMT -5 Greg Ballantyne said:

RobertW , 41% won't hurt a thing.... I've been in the mid 30's for weeks (winter time) without any problem. I've been in houses with heat pumps for the last 31 years (two different houses, two different locations) and low humidity only ever presents itself in the winter. I've gotten into the mid 30's nearly every winter for some period, and there are a few expected effects, but nothing even close to damage. Just some seasonal tuning differences. I am, however, running a humidifier in the heat pump (while heating - I haven't run any heat since March or April, this year) - I set it at maximum in wintertime at 45%. It doesn't always keep it there.....
If you want to keep it higher, there is always boiling a teapot - requires attention, however....

Remind me to never to buy one of your guitars

My post was NOT about the effects of humidity, it was about the very sudden change that occurred when heat pump kicked in.

Before 'central' cooling, the basement was an almost isolated ecosystem, cooler and wetter than upstairs.
I usually did not need to switch the humidity controlled guitar room from De-humidification unit to Humidification unit until late oct-nov here in the Great White North.

If you had read some of my older threads about Humidity, you would know why I will always error on the side of caution.
I don't rely on uncalibratable drug/hardware store hygrometers. The one I had been using when the Amber Trails neck warped was 15 POINTS off.

I use 4 HygroSets (calibrated yearly, I have 8) surrounding my guitar rack with another attached to each of the two humidity units.

re: your unconcern. Damage? I never said anything about damage. You don't mind the change in tone as guitar gets dryer? I do. And when guitar is too much over 55% , I find them unpleasant to play when wet

I like them, hanging, ready to play, between 44-55%

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RobertW
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 8:19:17 GMT -5

Quote

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 8:19:17 GMT -5

Sept 9, 2017 19:07:09 GMT -5 ladyssolo said:

I have central air, but I don't have it set very cold (about 74 degrees F) so no real humidity issues, probably due to the large number of plants and tropical fish that also live in the house.

Lots of plant upstairs, not so much down here. None in guitar room (no window )

I have not kept fish in 30 years or more.

Last Edit: Sept 10, 2017 8:59:12 GMT -5 by RobertW

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Derick
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 8:21:22 GMT -5 McCuen likes this

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Post by Derick on Sept 10, 2017 8:21:22 GMT -5

I'm pretty lucky, don't bother with humidity, but have this little digital unit, shows temperature, humidity and time.
Unfortunately for me this week and next week is decorating, painting and wallpapering.
Anyway took a quick peek at the humidity, and had a reading of 60%, a couple of hours later 90%, a little while later ---, off the scale, the good news is the guitars are fine and still play the same old tunes.

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RobertW
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 9:00:26 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 9:00:26 GMT -5

Sept 10, 2017 8:21:22 GMT -5 Derick said:

.
Anyway took a quick peek at the humidity, and had a reading of 60%, a couple of hours later 90%, a little while later ---,

You floated away?

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TonyKgull
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 15:31:59 GMT -5

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Post by TonyKgull on Sept 10, 2017 15:31:59 GMT -5

Sept 10, 2017 8:17:32 GMT -5 RobertW said:

...If you had read some of my older threads about Humidity, you would know why I will always error on the side of caution.
I don't rely on uncalibratable drug/hardware store hygrometers. The one I had been using when the Amber Trails neck warped was 15 POINTS off....

Wow. I've actually never heard of a guitar's neck warping cuz of 15 points of humidity difference. Maybe it was just a dud guitar?

Either way, ya, it sounds like you have some unusually drastic humidity changes to deal with in your house. I've not known anyone to have to deal with that severity level, not even in my impossible-to-regulate 50 year old apartment. LOL.

Hope you get that all sorted out for the sake of your babies!

=====================================
"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I
am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your
souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
- Jesus, from Matthew 11:28-30

Greg Ballantyne
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 17:21:50 GMT -5

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Post by Greg Ballantyne on Sept 10, 2017 17:21:50 GMT -5

RobertW , 15 points off is more than lousy calibration, I'd call that WAY off..... I tend to rely on more than one, and more than one type. A couple of the digital readout types, and a couple of the old style gauge types around the house. I haven't seen a variation as much as 15, or even close - usually just a couple of points one way or the other. Basement here is always wetter- and that's where my guitars are, and where the additional dehumidifier is.....
I also don't live that far north, and don't have the same level of winter dryness issues to deal with. Some folks also use wood burning stoves to heat, resulting in even dryer air. I've got a humidifier in the heat pump, but I'll still get readings in the low to mid 30s% for 4 to 6 weeks, Jan & Feb.
I am actually still running the dehumidifier, and AC up until a few days ago. The weather cooled off around here, but it's 65% at 67 degrees Fahrenheit in the basement. Running a little rich......

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RobertW
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 17:23:27 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 17:23:27 GMT -5

Sept 10, 2017 15:31:59 GMT -5 TonyKgull said:

Sept 10, 2017 8:17:32 GMT -5 RobertW said:

...If you had read some of my older threads about Humidity, you would know why I will always error on the side of caution.
I don't rely on uncalibratable drug/hardware store hygrometers. The one I had been using when the Amber Trails neck warped was 15 POINTS off....

Wow. I've actually never heard of a guitar's neck warping cuz of 15 points of humidity difference. Maybe it was just a dud guitar?

Either way, ya, it sounds like you have some unusually drastic humidity changes to deal with in your house. I've not known anyone to have to deal with that severity level, not even in my impossible-to-regulate 50 year old apartment. LOL.

Hope you get that all sorted out for the sake of your babies!

I find it better to assume the worst

When things end up better, one is ecstatic

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RobertW
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 17:41:23 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 17:41:23 GMT -5

Sept 10, 2017 17:21:50 GMT -5 Greg Ballantyne said:

RobertW , 15 points off is more than lousy calibration, I'd call that WAY off..... I tend to rely on more than one, and more than one type. A couple of the digital readout types, and a couple of the old style gauge types around the house. I haven't seen a variation as much as 15, or even close - usually just a couple of points one way or the other. Basement here is always wetter- and that's where my guitars are, and where the additional dehumidifier is.....
I also don't live that far north, and don't have the same level of winter dryness issues to deal with. Some folks also use wood burning stoves to heat, resulting in even dryer air. I've got a humidifier in the heat pump, but I'll still get readings in the low to mid 30s% for 4 to 6 weeks, Jan & Feb.
I am actually still running the dehumidifier, and AC up until a few days ago. The weather cooled off around here, but it's 65% at 67 degrees Fahrenheit in the basement. Running a little rich......

As I said, I normally run De-humidifier till Oct or Nov, then switch to humidifier. But with the heat pump I had to switch early because it has changed my basement's climate.

Back on old site, I did a comparison of various Hygrometers from drug and hardware stores. I found most were off 5-7 points in random directions. (2 of same brand 10 point apart). The most expensive of the bunch was off 15.
I also bought a Bionaire digital dehumidifier. It's display was off more than 10 point, I cant recall exactly. But since there was no way to calibrate the meter, I returned it.

I have not looked at the basement humidity outside guitar room since heat pump.

let's see:
57% in computer room, that is buffer room between guitar room and rest of basement.
what? 55% in main area of basement...

53% in guitar room.

Everything is copacetic

Let play guitar!

Humans like 55%+, guitars not so much

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Greg Ballantyne
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 17:56:59 GMT -5

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Post by Greg Ballantyne on Sept 10, 2017 17:56:59 GMT -5

RobertW , maybe it's all reaching an equilibrium....I've had so much trouble with the stand alone dehumidifier I don't even want to talk about it.....but a seasonal swing between a high of 65% and a low of 35% seems to be about the best I can do.
But to this point, the only noticable part of it is a little retuning required when it goes through a change.

It sounds like you're doing better than I am....

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Deleted
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 19:13:36 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 19:13:36 GMT -5

Sept 10, 2017 8:17:32 GMT -5 RobertW said:

Sept 9, 2017 22:45:22 GMT -5 Greg Ballantyne said:

RobertW , 41% won't hurt a thing.... I've been in the mid 30's for weeks (winter time) without any problem. I've been in houses with heat pumps for the last 31 years (two different houses, two different locations) and low humidity only ever presents itself in the winter. I've gotten into the mid 30's nearly every winter for some period, and there are a few expected effects, but nothing even close to damage. Just some seasonal tuning differences. I am, however, running a humidifier in the heat pump (while heating - I haven't run any heat since March or April, this year) - I set it at maximum in wintertime at 45%. It doesn't always keep it there.....
If you want to keep it higher, there is always boiling a teapot - requires attention, however....

Remind me to never to buy one of your guitars

You probably don't want to buy any of mine, either.

I don't worry about or measure the house humidity (though during the winter we run a humidifier in the bedroom for sleeping comfort.) I have two solid wood acoustics and one with laminate back and sides. I keep my guitars cased (with humidity control packs in the case) and take them out to practice when the mood strikes. If I have a gig for 2 - 3 hours, the guitar stays in the case until I start playing, then goes back in afterward.

I haven't noticed any issues with the guitars as a result.

Last Edit: Nov 25, 2017 9:05:12 GMT -5 by Deleted

TonyKgull
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Humidity and Heat Pumps Sept 10, 2017 23:46:14 GMT -5

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Post by TonyKgull on Sept 10, 2017 23:46:14 GMT -5

2 points.

One thing I noticed we don't talk about much is how long exactly ( or even roughly ) does it take for a guitar to dry out to point where it becomes detrimental. I mean, I'm a "case humidifier." That means, in the fall/winter/spring, whenever I take my guitar out, it's technically starting to dry out. Now, I practice for hours when the mood strikes me. Also, when I go to a gig, I take my guitar out at start to practice and it stays out until the gig is done. That's usually about 4.5 hours. Yes, even in the dead of winter. lol.

(Even had my Maritime MJ out on a cold fall day for hours one time when we were all in the mood to jam outside!)

I've never had a problem. I mean ya, a slight retuning may be necessary just before I start the actual set or whatever, but other than that, no problems. When I'm done and done, the guitar always goes back into its case with its humidipak/s. This has been with laminate and ASW guitars. So, again I ask, any thoughts on how long it would take for a guitar to dry out to the point it's actually detrimental?

( "It depends on the weather" being an axiom. I mean, we're not talking mere hours here are we?)

Second point: How do you know which hygrometer is calibrated correctly? (when you use multiples) If they all have some kind of variance, how do you know which one is the absolute, objectively correct one? lol.

And please don't say you average them out, that would make my head explode cuz it's illogical. It makes the assumption that the one in the middle is the correct one, which is not a completely insane assumption, but it's still just an assumption. lol.

Just thinking and pondering out loud here and would love to hear some thoughts.

Last Edit: Sept 10, 2017 23:48:04 GMT -5 by TonyKgull

=====================================
"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I
am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your
souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
- Jesus, from Matthew 11:28-30

WELCOME TO THE ACOUSTIC GUITAR CABIN!!!

Post by RobertW on Sept 8, 2017 16:07:07 GMT -5

Post by ladyssolo on Sept 9, 2017 19:07:09 GMT -5

Post by Greg Ballantyne on Sept 9, 2017 22:45:22 GMT -5

Post by TonyKgull on Sept 10, 2017 1:22:23 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 8:17:32 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 8:19:17 GMT -5

Post by Derick on Sept 10, 2017 8:21:22 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 9:00:26 GMT -5

Post by TonyKgull on Sept 10, 2017 15:31:59 GMT -5

Post by Greg Ballantyne on Sept 10, 2017 17:21:50 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 17:23:27 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Sept 10, 2017 17:41:23 GMT -5

Post by Greg Ballantyne on Sept 10, 2017 17:56:59 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 19:13:36 GMT -5

Post by TonyKgull on Sept 10, 2017 23:46:14 GMT -5

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