Arrange - transpose or capo | AcousticGuitarCabin

RobertW
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 27, 2018 8:04:20 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Jun 27, 2018 8:04:20 GMT -5

I've spoken a bit about why a capo may be preferable to chord transposition. Especially on how bass notes/progressions on 5th and 6th string are heard. Here is the opposite.

I've been working a few tunes from Neil Young's Harvest that I used to do, back in the day when my top end was higher than it is now. I've not been happy.
I've been playing them on Siggy, who is in so-called D-Standard capoed at 2ed fret.

The song Harvest itself: The chord charts I found were in D. Starts pretty high vocally for me now. But it was not a huge problem. The chords, on the other hand…

The chord sequence on verses is
D A G D -
D A -
G A Bm E -
D A D A

I hated that E...it just felt WRONG. My voice would waver, undecided on which note to sing!

So I transposed to C.

now … F G Am D felt exactly right, with bass note on 4th string... The rising tonal progress matched the pitch rise and felt right ending on the D on 4th string. Also, the full step down brought the tune within my vocal range. So no more sounding like I am trying to imitate Neil Young

I now play this capoed at 2ed fret, so it is effectively in C.

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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 27, 2018 8:49:49 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:49:49 GMT -5

I rarely use a capo, but I do regularly transpose songs so that they're in a key within my vocal range. I'm not one of those who believe that the original key is somehow 'sacred' and if you can't sing it in that key, you shouldn't be singing it at all.

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 8:30:52 GMT -5 by Deleted

ladyssolo
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 27, 2018 19:13:19 GMT -5

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Post by ladyssolo on Jun 27, 2018 19:13:19 GMT -5

Capoing rarely helps me, as I have a relatively low female voice (alto as a female but I can sing tenor in a pinch in the choir.) So a capo just makes an already too high song even higher. I prefer to transpose it down a step or two.

TonyKgull
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 3:26:53 GMT -5 RobertW likes this

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Post by TonyKgull on Jun 28, 2018 3:26:53 GMT -5

I'm with you RobertW ,.

I find the capo an amazing tool. It allows me to grab better sounding bass run downs if I want and grab a better vocal key as well.

One thing I've learned being on stage is that you need to be able to nail a song for the crowd to get into it. They're not stupid, blind or deaf. If they see you struggling with the song cuz the key is too low or too high, they will struggle to get into it with you. So, I'm a big believer in putting the song into the key that allows you to nail it! The capo and transposing are excellent tools to accomplish that with ease.

=====================================
"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I
am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your
souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
- Jesus, from Matthew 11:28-30

RobertW
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 7:46:32 GMT -5

Quote

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 7:46:32 GMT -5

Jun 28, 2018 3:26:53 GMT -5 TonyKgull said:

I'm with you RobertW ,.

I find the capo an amazing tool. It allows me to grab better sounding bass run downs if I want and grab a better vocal key as well.

One thing I've learned being on stage is that you need to be able to nail a song for the crowd to get into it. They're not stupid, blind or deaf. If they see you struggling with the song cuz the key is too low or too high, they will struggle to get into it with you. So, I'm a big believer in putting the song into the key that allows you to nail it! The capo and transposing are excellent tools to accomplish that with ease.

right, you see a bit what I'm talking about.
But my post is about transposing a song to improve the sound of the chords and to lower it into one's vocal range.

It's not about using a capo to do that. That was spoken of in another tread. You obviously cannot use a capo to lower the key of a song.

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 8:25:06 GMT -5 by RobertW: so many errors :(

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RobertW
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 8:26:06 GMT -5

Quote

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 8:26:06 GMT -5

Jun 27, 2018 19:13:19 GMT -5 ladyssolo said:

Capoing rarely helps me, as I have a relatively low female voice (alto as a female but I can sing tenor in a pinch in the choir.) So a capo just makes an already too high song even higher. I prefer to transpose it down a step or two.

@sleigh,ladyssolo,

but my post was about transposing to a lower key!

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 8:27:15 GMT -5 by RobertW

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Jim
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 8:26:29 GMT -5 TonyKgull, seagullplayer, and 1 more like this

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Post by Jim on Jun 28, 2018 8:26:29 GMT -5

The true value of a capo (to me) is allowing certain voicings of chords in the key you want. There are passages that cannot be played without a capo. I think this is what RobertW and TonyKgull are talking about.
Try playing this little F, Fdim lick without a capo. Unless you have monster hands,it is impossible. With a capo it's a simple lick.

If I'm playing a song in C and someone wants to play it in D, if I'm just playing chords, it doesn't really matter if I transpose or use a capo, but if I have worked out some fancy licks in C using open strings, the capo is a really handy tool.
ladyssolo , A capo can come in handy when a song is too high for your voice. If a song is out of my range, then it is both too high and too low. Sometimes when I'm struggling, I'll put the capo on and drop the song an octave.
Another great use of the capo is when you have two or more guitars playing together. Capoing away from each other helps add some variety to the sound.

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 8:32:54 GMT -5 by Jim

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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 8:42:36 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 8:42:36 GMT -5

Jun 28, 2018 8:26:06 GMT -5 RobertW said:

Jun 27, 2018 19:13:19 GMT -5 ladyssolo said:

Capoing rarely helps me, as I have a relatively low female voice (alto as a female but I can sing tenor in a pinch in the choir.) So a capo just makes an already too high song even higher. I prefer to transpose it down a step or two.

@sleigh ,ladyssolo ,

but my post was about transposing to a lower key!

RobertW , Understood, and yes, there are songs where you want a lot of open strings. But as long as you're not transposing in Eb or C# or some other similar key, I've found that I usually have enough open strings to make it sound decent.

But... I play "Norwegian Wood" in E, which allows me to chord the song the way it sounds best to me, but I usually play it on my 12-string, which I keep tuned down a full step. That puts the song in D, which is just a bit too low for me, so that one of the few songs that I actually capo on the second fret, so I'm back in E and can use my preferred fingering.

So yes, I know what you mean. I just avoid capoing in general, though, unless I feel like I have no other choice -- and I rarely feel like I have no other choice.

Like ladyssolo , though, a capo that took me down rather than up would be used a lot more often! I may one day get to the point where I tune all my guitars down a half or full step, just so I can hit the notes that I used to be able to hit.

Last Edit: Jun 29, 2018 7:34:54 GMT -5 by Deleted

RobertW
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 9:14:36 GMT -5

Quote

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 9:14:36 GMT -5

@sleigh,
I have no acoustic guitar in E Standard atm...
all are ( the baritone is excluded of course

either 1/2 or full step down.

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RobertW
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 9:17:26 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 9:17:26 GMT -5

Jun 28, 2018 8:26:29 GMT -5 Jim said:

The true value of a capo (to me) is allowing certain voicings of chords in the key you want. There are passages that cannot be played without a capo. I think this is what RobertW and TonyKgull are talking about.
Try playing this little F, Fdim lick without a capo. Unless you have monster hands,it is impossible. With a capo it's a simple lick.

If I'm playing a song in C and someone wants to play it in D, if I'm just playing chords, it doesn't really matter if I transpose or use a capo, but if I have worked out some fancy licks in C using open strings, the capo is a really handy tool.
ladyssolo , A capo can come in handy when a song is too high for your voice. If a song is out of my range, then it is both too high and too low. Sometimes when I'm struggling, I'll put the capo on and drop the song an octave.
Another great use of the capo is when you have two or more guitars playing together. Capoing away from each other helps add some variety to the sound.

This is correct, and often over-looked by people who never use a capo.

I've been fooling around, fingering the melody of a Peter Frampton song (Baby I Love Your Way) in G, at 9th fret,... it comes out real sweet. ..and Not for vocal reasons.

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 9:29:54 GMT -5 by RobertW

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Derick
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 13:11:45 GMT -5

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Post by Derick on Jun 28, 2018 13:11:45 GMT -5

Capos are good for guitar maintenance, that's all I use them for. 😀

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 15:10:30 GMT -5 by RobertW: Mod wishs for an Unlike button :)

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RobertW
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 15:14:50 GMT -5

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Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 15:14:50 GMT -5

of course , if a song is too low for you (ie you need guitar capoed -2 steps down) you can capo at 10th fret or so and pretend you're the mandolin player...

or buy a baritone guitar

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 15:15:20 GMT -5 by RobertW

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TonyKgull
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 16:06:51 GMT -5

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Post by TonyKgull on Jun 28, 2018 16:06:51 GMT -5

Jun 28, 2018 7:46:32 GMT -5 RobertW said:

Jun 28, 2018 3:26:53 GMT -5 TonyKgull said:

I'm with you RobertW ,.

I find the capo an amazing tool. It allows me to grab better sounding bass run downs if I want and grab a better vocal key as well.

One thing I've learned being on stage is that you need to be able to nail a song for the crowd to get into it. They're not stupid, blind or deaf. If they see you struggling with the song cuz the key is too low or too high, they will struggle to get into it with you. So, I'm a big believer in putting the song into the key that allows you to nail it! The capo and transposing are excellent tools to accomplish that with ease.

right, you see a bit what I'm talking about.
But my post is about transposing a song to improve the sound of the chords and to lower it into one's vocal range.

It's not about using a capo to do that. That was spoken of in another tread. You obviously cannot use a capo to lower the key of a song.

If you read my whole post, I was expositing the virtues of the capo and transposing.

Also, I sometimes use a capo to lower a key, but by putting it up on the 4th or 5th fret. It's not too ridiculous playing up there and you can drop your voice to a comfortable key. I do this in a Johnny Cash song and a couple of others I can't recall right now.

I have not had to transpose too many songs that I can recall, but there have definitely been a few. Most songs I can do in their original keys, but I'm sure I'll be lowering more keys as time goes on.

Last Edit: Jun 28, 2018 16:07:23 GMT -5 by TonyKgull

=====================================
"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I
am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your
souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
- Jesus, from Matthew 11:28-30

modernsaint
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 16:46:54 GMT -5

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Post by modernsaint on Jun 28, 2018 16:46:54 GMT -5

I have found that if the original used a capo, I will too. I have also found that using the capo in those songs are to high vocally, it is easier to capo down a half step and still play the same voicings.

As for my mando, I use a capo if needed. The neck is too tiny for large fingers if I have form difficult chords. Why struggle, it doesn't make you less of a player when you are getting paid.

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Jim
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Arrange - transpose or capo Jun 28, 2018 23:42:33 GMT -5

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Post by Jim on Jun 28, 2018 23:42:33 GMT -5

Pete Seeger originally had two extra frets added to his banjo so he could capo down from standard (although Pete, and most non-bluegrass banjo players, have many tunings).
He later had a banjo with three extra frets so he could capo down even further. I've never heard of anyone extending a guitar neck for this reason.

-1962 Martin D-21
-1950 Gibson LG1
-1958 Goya M-26
-1974 Yamaha FG75 high strung
-A number of banjos, mandolins, Autoharps, ukuleles, dulcimers, mouth harps, a Tele clone and various other stuff.
-I own a fiddle, but only play it when Maggie and the cats are all out of the house.

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Arrange - transpose or capo

Post by RobertW on Jun 27, 2018 8:04:20 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:49:49 GMT -5

Post by ladyssolo on Jun 27, 2018 19:13:19 GMT -5

Post by TonyKgull on Jun 28, 2018 3:26:53 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 7:46:32 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 8:26:06 GMT -5

Post by Jim on Jun 28, 2018 8:26:29 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 8:42:36 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 9:14:36 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 9:17:26 GMT -5

Post by Derick on Jun 28, 2018 13:11:45 GMT -5

Post by RobertW on Jun 28, 2018 15:14:50 GMT -5

Post by TonyKgull on Jun 28, 2018 16:06:51 GMT -5

Post by modernsaint on Jun 28, 2018 16:46:54 GMT -5

Post by Jim on Jun 28, 2018 23:42:33 GMT -5

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