Post by freemankeller on Oct 28, 2019 21:02:47 GMT -5
I haven't posted anything here for quite a while but I need some information. I have an Art and Lutherie guitar on my bench and it will need its neck reset. The problem is that I believe (but the owner denies) that the bridge has been shaved. If folks would measure the height of their bridges, not including the saddle, between the G and D string in front of the saddle I would appreciate it.
I've heard Seagull has various height bridges and installs the one that gives them the proper neck angle. I've seen some real chunky ones and some thin ones. I made a 3D model of a 1994 S6 bridge that was .28" thick. I'm sure I have a few Seagulls at home that are .31" or possibly more. I could check a few later.
Post by freemankeller on Oct 29, 2019 11:48:54 GMT -5
I would appreciate any information I can get. The guitar needs a reset - that should be straight forward. The present bridge is 0.250 tall and looks like the top has been worked on, the owner says not. The guitar has a UST and the saddle is tilting badly - the slot is only 1/8 deep and the transducer takes up some of it.
I asked for bridge measurements on another forum and got two replys - 23/64 (which is a hair under 3/8) and 0.280 (which is thicker than mine but seems to jive with yours). I am used to Martin style bridges which are typically 3/8 with 1/4 deep slots.
My choices are to set the neck to this bridge and deal with the tilted saddle or to replace the bridge and set the neck to it. The guitar is probably worth a few hundred dollars - how much time do I put into it?
If it has the older bolt on neck the neck reset is fairly simple. If it has the newer epoxied neck, the neck reset is impossible. Seagull made the change in 2006. www.seagullguitars.com/en/features Don't know if that applies to A & L too, but I'd have to assume since they are probably made in the same factory. You should see if you can remove the neck before going any further.
Post by freemankeller on Oct 29, 2019 12:34:40 GMT -5
LOL, I've never heard you say a neck reset is impossible.
It is a bolt on neck, they were very slightly loose but that is not the problem (I have "reset" two seagulls by merely tightening the bolts). The f/b extension looks like its glued to the top (there are no bolts under the top) so I'll have to break that loose. I warned the owner about probably finish damage.
My dilemma is whether to replace the bridge before I set it on set to this bridge and deal with the wonky saddle. I'd post a picture but its not obvious how. What I would really like is a couple more measurements.
Take a look at the picture in the link in my previous post. The neck is extended and epoxied into a long channel in an extended neck block for stability. A huge surface area that can't be released. I've talked to Michel at Godin, they cut the neck off, mill out the pocket, and replace the neck. The bolts are always there. Hopefully, the guitar you're working on is the old style. If you unbolt the neck and the heel is loose it certainly is.
I did remove an Applause Ovation neck constructed this way. The extended neck was set is regular wood glue. I pulled 3 frets and drilled 3 sets of holes intersecting with the edges of the pocket and was able to get enough steam in there to remove the neck. The tiny dovetail heel was set in epoxy. It took a lot of steam to get this apart!! In the end, there was some swelling damage to the fretboard joint, AND there's no way to do a neck reset on this type of joint since the truss rod would end up sticking out of the top. I've been meaning to take some pictures and write up what I did before possibly scraping it.
Post by freemankeller on Oct 29, 2019 17:54:37 GMT -5
Thanks for all of that. I pulled the bolts out and can open a very small gap at the bottom of the heel but the top and f/b extension are completely tight. I assumed that I could put a little heat on it and pop it off as usual, but if your pictures are true (and I think it is), then I'm going to pass on this puppy and give it back. There are too many unknowns.
I plan to print this thread and give it to the owner. And, CT, thanks for your efforts here. You continue to be a warehouse of knowledge and its good to cross paths with you again. I went on a road trip recently and took my old Yamie with me, continues to be a pretty amazing piece of plywood.
Thanks. You still have that old Yamie??!! With your experience and my neck reset guide you shouldn't have any problem doing a neck reset on it. It's the same as any other dovetail joint, just 4X harder to remove! Sometimes more, sometimes less.
Any clue how old the guitar is? If it's pre-2006 you'd probably be safe to heat the fretboard and separate it from the top. But, I've never taken the bolts off of a post 2006 to see how much the joint moves.
Post by freemankeller on Oct 29, 2019 19:02:04 GMT -5
That old Yamie was my first guitar - 1969. I did the saw-off-the-neck rest some years ago - unlike you I pumped a gallon of steam into it but couldn't get it apart. Its still a wonderful sounding and playing guitar - its been on climbing/skiing/camping trips for most of its life and I think it was happy to be on the road.
As far as the A&L, I don't know its age, the owner probably has a good idea, but frankly with everything I've learned over the past couple of days I'll be very happy to give it back. It takes a fair amount of force to get a tiny crack at the bottom of the heel, maybe the equivalent of having strings on it. I've actually seen that before on a Seagull - it looked like it needed a reset and there was a little crack at the heel - the bolts were loose and simply tightening them brought the angle back. On this one the bolts were tight.
I can see a lot of hours with no clear direction and uncertain outcome - that little voice is saying "run as fast as you can"
Post by freemankeller on Oct 30, 2019 11:00:16 GMT -5
Update. I tried to run away but the owner has pretty much insisted that I try to fix it. He said it dates to about 1995 so if you are correct I should be able to get it apart. It has a kind of matte black finish which will be very hard to repair if I scratch it, and I know I will scratch it. If I can get the neck off I'll reset it to the current bridge and route the slot deeper. I'm not particularly excited by all of this.
If I have any luck I'll report back in a week or two.
One last question, CT, when you say they used epoxy in the f/b extension do you mean gluing the board to the neck (which is fairly common) or the neck and that big block to the guitar itself?