2004 seagull S series grand?

I had a 1998 Seagull Grand (got cheap, needed a neck reset) and a 2008 Seagull Grand (was given). I sold them both. They were “dead” in comparison to my larger size Seagull’s probably over braced for their small size.

I’m amazed the saddle slot was so sloppy!!

I’ve talked to Michel at Godin MANY times, possibly monthly. All of the Seagull content pinned in this forum was extracted from him. I started the spec spreadsheet, based on my vintage Yamaha spreadsheet, and it took him 1 year to fill all the data in, but he uses it every day vs. looking thru the Product Lists he’s used for years. He sends me updates whenever they add or delete models or specs.

They changed to dual action truss rods in late 2001.

As you know, they changed to the new epoxied design set neck in 2006. This reinforcement has probably reduced the inevitable neck angle change as the string tension pulls the neck up and pushes the fretboard extension into the guitar. This happens to all guitars. I’ll discuss this further in the other thread when I have time. Busy day at work.

I have never seen or heard about Seagull using shims in the heel to set the neck angle. That would be a hack in my book. Maybe they were added afterward by someone? I haven’t seen their video in a while but I believe the heel is sanded on a machine to match the guitar, and the guitar is put in a fixture, and the proper height bridge is used to get the proper neck angle. I have seen a couple of Seagulls with very thick bridges, and one with a very thin bridge.

I have a few guitars (including Seagulls) that haven’t had strings on them in years. The truss rod hasn’t back bowed the beck on any of them.

Don’t dwell on the break angle much. There have been some discussions on the AGF about this and the most knowledgeable people there agree all you need is enough to keep the strings from sliding on the saddle. It’s the height of the strings above the top that is more important. I discussed this here.
  acousticguitarcabin.boards.net/thread/1099/break-angle-myth-debunked

On the neck shims. I emailed Michel quite a few times since I got this 2004 grand. I asked about the shims. He told me at that time they found a neck that was as possible to the perfect neck angle and used these shims to get it right on. It was perfect when I got it yet by 2012 it changed which seems to be due to the string tension. Back then they didn't have the machine they had in that video made in 2011 that you described where they place the body on a jig and the neck on the other side of the same jig and it sands both for the neck angle. Even though later they do mention as you stated they select a bridge once the neck is epoxied in place and use a device to measure with a dial indicator to find a bridge of the proper thickness and they do state each top is a bit different as all guitars are then once the saddle is glued down they do the same to sand a saddle for the "proper action" based on the slots depth. I understand all the reasons why as I'm sure you do.
I emailed Michel in 2009 that's when he told me why they used the shims. I got this grand new so no one ever added shims. I also asked Michel about the arch in the lower bout that mine grand has, in the 2011 tour video Godin mentions they have an arch built into the upper bout to stiffen it to counter act the board forcing the top down yet they also state the rest of the top is flat. Michel told me the early 2004 did not have a flat lower bout and mine does not. It does have the 7 ply cross brace as the late modes have which is also made to counter act the finger board from developing that 14th fret hump this creates a finger board fall away as you know. He felt the wider bridge slot as well as the lose pin fit might be due to a dry guitar. When I removed all the strings for the first time the saddle fell out I put it back in a found I could rock it and upon closer inspection found when they routed the slot they missed a spot on the treble side , there was a small triangle shaped spot at the very bottom of the slot that would not allow the saddle to sit down to the slots bottom so I used a small exacto blade to trim that off and in doing so the saddle was now to low on the treble side I got a replacement from Graph Tech and sander the bottom to bring it back to were it was. I'm sure at times the machine that cuts the slots miss the mark. I just made a rose wood shim super glued to the saddle shaped to match the curve of the top of the bridge slot and sanded it for a firm fit. I measured .010" gap and sanded to get to that. Michel had now why to see my guitar yet I could tell Godin cut the slot to wide and reamed the pin holes to wide at the top so if you place them in the hole they fit well in the bridge plate yet rock at the top of the tapered hole. I even got the presentation pins because I was told seagulls used these they have the same taper yet are shorter and have a smaller diameter under the pin head so I got the traditional pins which are just a tad larger than the pres pins and also larger by the same amount as the stock plastic pins. This grand had no indication of being dry when I got it although it was 2 years old when I bought it in 2006 Nov and it was built in Nov 2004. I have no idea what conditions the online store I got it from kept it in. It was after all a online store and also a store one could walk in and buy a guitar . It's possible even though it was sold as new it was a display model or even a return I say this because there were a few small dents in the cedar top. It has no signs of being played and no way to know if this store would sell a display model or one that was returned, the serial # does not indicate it's a second grade with an S after it. Or B grade I forget how they stamp the serial number I just know it's not either a second or B grade.

The one thing I wanted to point out is this idea that the set neck only uses the bolts until the epoxy cures. In that 2011 video I only see them use wood glue to glue the board to the body and then gray epoxy through a caulk gun applied only to the neck pocket bottom and sides of that pocket then the bolts are tightened . I never say any wood glue of epoxy put on the heel so I would say in this video Godin miss spoke , he was asked and did say the do nothing after the epoxy cures and it the video they show and you can see how they never put any sort of glue on the heel and I can't imagine thick epoxy even with the neck bolted down would be forced into the heel area it's just not possible even wood glue would not flow into the heel as you know it needs to be applied and I see no evidence of this in that video. The 2004 grand I have has the same neck pocket meaning a new neck would fit my grand other than fitting the heel to the body and the neck angle. Which could be done. My last email to Michel was asking about the included truss rod hex key and the bit of slop it has meaning it's not a real preferred snug fit I have never tried to adjust it and see no sign it was ever touched not a mark in the rod hex socket. Since the online store I bought it from emailed me back saying the don't keep records back to 2006 and I can't find the receipt Michel sent me a phone number to call and ask if they would fix any issues under warranty , I can't say I want to do this.

CTGull. I'm sure a grand would sound dead compared to a larger body acoustic. I wouldn't say it's about the bracing the grand it just a smaller body and the size is like a speaker in an amp. Mine is far from dead sounding it rings for quite a while after a note is plucked yet it's not as loud as any dread I've ever owned. It has it's place. I like the sound mine has. This is what concerns me, If I do lower the action which I want to try higher action has more down pressure on the bridge and nut since on mine both are a bit high for easy playing yet at the same time this drives the top better. I will see if I like the result of lower action if not I'll find an action that allows for easier playing and not loose the tone and projection it has now. It may be subtle.